I believe we should make it PPNZ Policy *right now* (if we get the support within the party first of course) to make local body elections be online ASAP (as soon as possible doesn't mean by yesterday, there is still a process, perhaps just one or two regions that volunteer for it in the next local body election and then rolled out to the entire country at the following local body election).

Now for the objections against this: remember we don't have to use a system that is 100% secure (such a thing doesn't exist), it just needs to be comparable to the current system (and remember, paper voting is full of stuff ups! The bar isn't super high).

This ideally needs to be tried out at a small scale before rolling it out for everywhere, of course this already been done elsewhere such as Estonia.

But I'd argue we'd want local experience in this, both experience in implementing it and public confidence gained in using it.

Thus trialling it at local body elections several times (perhaps three or four cycles) prior to using it in a general election (and even then, maybe only using it at a few by-elections prior to using it a general election). And doing it at just a few local regions that volunteer for it in the first local body election, before being used in *all* local body elections.

I don't think this plan I've laid out is particularly outrageously ambitious (if anything it could be accused of being too shy, timid, and slow!).

At the very utmost fastest it would be TWO DECADES before we'd see online voting in a general election (even *if* you assume PPNZ gets elected into the very next parliament AND we get this proposal accepted then passed into law almost immediately).

The math: PPNZ elected into parliament 2014 with such a crushing majority we immediately put my proposal into action for the 2016 local body election for those local body regions which volunteer for it. 3 more cycles at the minimum brings us to the 2027 local body elections, then we use it for the by-elections. Of course there is only 1 year left in the 2025 term so we'd be doing by-elections for four years until the 2028 general election which would be the last paper based general election (fingers crossed, if all of what went before went to plan. Such as getting elected in 2014 with PPNZ having a crushing majority...). Thus 2031 would be the first ever online general election for NZ! Hence my point, just about *TWO DECADES*! (rounding up by one...)

Of course the arguments FOR online voting is many, encouraging more to vote. More efficient & faster. Plus as policy for PPNZ it distinguishes us from the other parties by giving us another USP ("Unique Selling Point").

Me and Pepe argued against in the Facebook discussion

Sorry to rain on your parade, but online voting is about as popular in the pirate party as theocracy. (based on my experience over the last 2 years occasionally talking about online voting & scrutineering). Non-core policy like this needs a 75% majority to pass, and tbh you would run the risk of ending up with PPNZ having an official non-core policy *opposing* online voting, even for local body elections.

personally, I could support endorsing starting an online voting *option*, with a bunch of conditions around the scrutineerability of the software, and an absolute requirement that everyone still has the option of a traditional private booth in a physical voting place.


Postal voting dropped the bar so low so fast it created the gulf of mexico. I don't buy the argument that this is enough of an excuse for us to propose a new bar below sea level, just because "it's not any lower". As I see it, the 'control' scenario we should compare anything against is a 100% paper ballots in boxes election.

Though it might be a good idea for a poll, it would be good to have some quantified measure of what people think on this. I suggest this is the next homepage poll starting June 1

It is the #1 most dangerous and stupid thing that we could ever do.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade too but its just got to end now. I'm not even gonna be polite about it. Networked electronics and even simple electronics involved with voting has been in the news for the past 2 years constantly because its inherently unsafe and makes it hellishly easy for governments to circumvent democracy. There is ZERO doubt in industry about the safety of electronics in voting....it is a resounding NO.

No. No. And one more for good measure: NO.

Sorry that sounded quite harsh of me. But seriously. Bad idea from day 1. We need a proper mechanism invented first, then we can look at involving electronics. Electronics are to never ever be relied upon ANYWHERE in the process. For anything. Anywhere.

Hell, you do realize that even your keyboards can be sniffed from an adjacent room? Your keyboard is a giant variable resister, even on laptops.

And monitors? Lets just say I know a guy whos done the preliminary work for displaying the contents of monitors by sniffing the electromagnet interference. We're talking room-next-door range here.

Thats just ONE tiny example of how electronics fall flat on their face for safety. Another would be the fact that they will rely on public WAN infrastructure. Say Telecom NGN or Telstra. Believe me - if someone wants to see your data, they can.

There is just so much to consider, we will be forever telling you No for unique reasons for at least a week.

(BTW that screen/keyboard/power emissions stuff is common knowledge in the security community, and standard operating procedure for secure government equipment protects against it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEMPEST)

I'm not expecting it to become policy, but I think it should and I reckon it is good to stir up debate!

And for those disagreeing:

Do you think that never ever not even in a million years we could have voting done any other way than by paper?

As the pirate party we should be at the forefront of technological innovation as we lead the way!

If you carefully read again my proposal you will see it is quite a cautious plan that would take a number of years to take place to its fullest extent (even in the most extreme situation of the *fastest* possible scenario, that is highly unrealistic to be honest that it would be that fast, it would still take TWO DECADES!!!).

You don't understand. Security isn't a problem that's going to go away in the next couple of decades. Until we learn how to write code without bugs (we currently have *no idea*, and it's likely to always be extremely difficult, if not impossible), security will be a massive problem, thanks to the lucrative nature of hacking by criminals and governments.