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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:19 am 
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Edelweiss wrote:
A tax based on use of copyrighted material would be one way to redistribute the enormous wealth made by the few top artists to the many struggling at the bottom of the pile.
...based on the assumption that a few are unfairly earning more at the expense of the many. Lady Gaga fills arenas because there are that many people who want to go see her show. Should the bands people don't want to go to get paid out of her pocket? Can anyone with a guitar and knowledge of three chords, strumming away at the local pub, be subsidised by her?
Once that's set up, how many hacks with guitars will be strumming away in pubs, and how many shows will Lady Gaga be doing at what ticket price now that the burden of an 'entertainment tax' is added to costs?


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:30 pm
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cybertao wrote:
That's the only point I agree with, it is too obtrusive to regulate what happens in the privacy of your home. Paying an ISP for bandwidth to trade commercial media with other people who pay their ISPs for the bandwidth, perhaps facilitated by a website selling advertising space, is not done in the privacy of your home and involves profiteering from different parties clipping the ticket each step of the way.
Hmmm, well you're right, to an extent. I write letters on bought paper with a bought pen and put it in a bought envelope to which I affix a bought stamp, then put it in a public post box, after which it is collected and taken to a mail station, sorted for transfer to another mail station, transferred, sorted for delivery and delivered, by paid postal employees, much of which is not done in the privacy of my own home, and involves profiteering from different parties, and yet I still consider the contents of my letters to be private. It's not for this reason that file sharing is not private. However, you're right that file sharing isn't private, because it involves making material publicly available, or in other words, publishing it. This was a bad argument on my part.

I would question, though, whether outlawing this quick and simple non-commercial act really advances the public good, and whether it is workable without massive fines and guilt upon accusation.


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:28 pm 
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How does allowing people to copy commercial works in that way help the public good? We have the infrastructure in place to cheaply and effortlessly self-publish and distribute works. That's why the issue of copyright has been brought to the public's attention like never before and why copyright is more relevant than ever before (copyright is to do with the rights you have to copy what can be copied).
With the likes of http://www.jamendo.com who take advantage of peer to peer technologies (their content is even available in OGG format), they should be thriving. Their service is better than downloading music from The Pirate Bay - but people would still rather pirate commercial music than enjoy what has been created and distributed with the intention of sharing and enjoying.
At the end of the day, the masses want the commercially produced music. There has never been less of a monopoly on creation and distribution than what we enjoy now, other than the monopoly of what people want. The irony of stripping away copyright will leave people with less of what they want and adds nothing to what they can already have but don't want.


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:59 pm 

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cybertao wrote:
How does allowing people to copy commercial works in that way help the public good?
Much the same way that allowing people to listen to buskers without paying helps the public good. It is less restricting to people's liberty.


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:46 pm 
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Is 'A busker in every pub' a PPNZ policy?


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:48 pm 

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cybertao wrote:
Is 'A busker in every pub' a PPNZ policy?
No. Did you think it was?


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:18 pm 
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cybertao wrote:
Is 'A busker in every pub' a PPNZ policy?



and an idiot in every village ... you'll want to book early to get the best placings though.


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Speaking of which, I noticed the foundation membership counter took a dip. Do the memberships have to be renewed each year to count?


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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:55 am 
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cybertao wrote:
Edelweiss wrote:
A tax based on use of copyrighted material would be one way to redistribute the enormous wealth made by the few top artists to the many struggling at the bottom of the pile.
...based on the assumption that a few are unfairly earning more at the expense of the many. Lady Gaga fills arenas because there are that many people who want to go see her show. Should the bands people don't want to go to get paid out of her pocket? Can anyone with a guitar and knowledge of three chords, strumming away at the local pub, be subsidised by her?
Once that's set up, how many hacks with guitars will be strumming away in pubs, and how many shows will Lady Gaga be doing at what ticket price now that the burden of an 'entertainment tax' is added to costs?


Yes that is the idea although I hope that will be replaced with a universal unconditional income.

Your use of Lady Gaga is a false dichotomy as it would not be just her paying for all the hacks strumming in pubs. There are a lot of high earning artists and not a lot of pubs would tolerate lousy music from hacks.

But you have a valid point in that the artists who benefit would need to show a degree of proficiency in their field and after a specified period demonstrate that there is demand for their art in the community. But questions of taste propriety should not be a factor.

Remember the market place is not the only arbiter of talent. Opera, classical music and art galleries around the world are subsidised by taxpayers as they would not survive on ticket sales alone and a great many are provided free to the user.

Andrew

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 Post subject: Re: Mechanism for economic reward of artists without copyrig
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:49 am 
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FYI I have added a translation of an article titled 10 Important points for copyright reform by the German Pirate Party to the board under Party Policy Development / Copyright.
It is a bit rough - I used number nine fencing wire to keep the tricky bits in place - but it will give a fair idea of what is going on over here.

Andrew

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